Possible stator woes!!!!!!!

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PHD -- Piled Higher and Deeper:

Electrosport noted that the true output of Gen I alternator was more like 410 watts than the spec 490 watts.

Gen I

Charging system

Model (manufacturer) TLNZ79 (DENSO) ----

Nominal output 14 V/490 W at 5,000 r/min ----

Stator coil resistance/color 0.15 ~ 0.23 &/W–W

Voltage regulator

Model (manufacturer) FH001 (SHINDENGEN) ----

No-load regulated voltage 14.1 ~ 14.9 V ----

Rectifier

Model (manufacturer) FH001 (SHINDENGEN) ----

Rectifier capacity 35 A ----

Withstand voltage 200 V

Gen II

Charging system

Model/Manufacturer LNX07/Denso

Standard output 14.0 V 590 w 5000 r/min

Stator Coil Resistance 0.13-0.19 Ohms at 20 degrees C (68 degrees F)

Voltage regulator

FH012AA/SHINDENGEN

Regulated voltage (DC) 14.2-14.8V

Rectifier capacity (DC) 50.0A

Withstand voltage 40.0V

 
sorry if this reply is all messed up but wanted to let you know on the V* using the new stator and rectifer from Electrosport the rectifers are getting to hot and failing. one put his stock one back on and left the stator but does not overload his electircal system and it has been working for several months.

 
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He're to hopin and wishin you luck...
I don't want to read about you emptying a clip into a stator on the side of the road :)
Seen that done to my next door neighbors lawn mower.

He used a 12 guage and it definitely worked.

Got his own back on the thing for sure!

Made sure it was totally buggered and it was!

 
I've put about 15,000 miles on my 03 w/ the new stator.

I do get some "heat related" readings that make me a bit queasy.

I've gotten 13.6-13.7 @75mph, 90 degrees,bike at 3 bars with nothing on.

As the temps and bike cool off, running the same speeds the Datel will work

back up to 14.0-14.1..

However, if I get caught in traffic and it's hot the fans kick on, Datel goes to

12.4-12.5 :(

I sure hope nothing's getting cooked...

When the bike is running cool and I'm using aux lights and heated gear everything

seems to be fine..

I wish I could stop being concerned :unsure:

 
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I've put about 15,000 miles on my 03 w/ the new stator.I do get some "heat related" readings that make me a bit queasy.

I've gotten 13.6-13.7 @75mph, 90 degrees,bike at 3 bars with nothing on.

As the temps and bike cool off, running the same speeds the Datel will work

back up to 14.0-14.1..

However, if I get caught in traffic and it's hot the fans kick on, Datel goes to

12.4-12.5 :(

I sure hope nothing's getting cooked...

When the bike is running cool and I'm using aux lights and heated gear everything

seems to be fine..

I wish I could stop being concerned :unsure:
The symptoms you are describing are exactly what I am seeing on my bike.

 
Hm....maybe it's time to switch over to a muskrat parka and seal skin mukluks, eh? I used to line my mukluks with dried grass. My parka had several pockets for dried caribou and fish and what-not. I'd just eat snow for fluids. And no, radman....not the yellow snow. I can see zappa rolling over in his grave right now.

 
Hm....maybe it's time to switch over to a muskrat parka and seal skin mukluks, eh? I used to line my mukluks with dried grass. My parka had several pockets for dried caribou and fish and what-not. I'd just eat snow for fluids. And no, radman....not the yellow snow. I can see zappa rolling over in his grave right now.

Now, that right there is some funny ****, I don't care who you are! 'Cept about the muskrat thing? You're thinking about The Captain and Tennille, not Zappa, Lord of Witty Music 'n ****. Er, :wink:

 
Whats the verdict? Can it work correctly or is it just another floatin' Baby Ruth. <_<

 
Well, I made it back home from the IBA National. On the 1150 mile ride back, the Datel was all over the place, the same behavior it had on the ride out to Denver.

I purchased a new stator cover gasket from Sunnyside today, but I going to wait until the internal wire harness fastener to come in before I rip the ElectroSport out and rte-install the stock stator.

It was a noble experiment, guys, but I'm done with it. It's back to the factory components for now. <_<

 
What?....no muskrat parka for you, wc? What up with that?

 
well, at least you got there and home. the ohmmms paid off!

 
Talk about excellent timing!! I was just thinking of purchasing a new stator...guess I'll be saving my money!

 
Just E-mailed [email protected]

Asked them if they knew about the problems and had any plans for making an aftermarket rectifier. Also asked iif I would be able to return the 'new in box stator'. Hope to get a response from them. Otherwise my duck decoys need a new anchor. <_<

 
Warchild,

Glad you made it back without being stranded. Thanks for taking the "experimental" hit on this one... now we all know better!

 
So was it the electrosport stator that was going bad or what? I see a lot of blame assigned to the stator without any real troubleshooting done to verify that it was the failing component in your electrical system. It would be awful if you put your stock stator back in and find out on the side of some highway at 3 am in the rain that it was the rectifier (or something else) that was failing. :blink:

 
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Why not replace the voltage regulator and leave the Elctrosport stator in for a bit longer? Sounds like the voltage regulator is what is dying, not the stator. Maybe it was going to die anyway...???

 
me='jestal' date='Aug 22 2006, 07:12 PM' post='142866']Why not replace the voltage regulator and leave the Elctrosport stator in for a bit longer? Sounds like the voltage regulator is what is dying, not the stator. Maybe it was going to die anyway...???
Well, until I get a chance to do more investigation into this issue, we don't know what the problem is.... it could turn out to be any number of things. Or a combination of things.

It could be the stator.

It could be the R/R.

It could be whatever long-term effects this new stator might be having on the stock R/R.

It could be the wire harness. It could be connectors. It could be anything. All we know is that quite a few of us that have the ESG130 stator are seeing these voltage fluctuations where there had been none before, and this with no electrical loads on the bike.

All that having been said, and since we really don't know at this point if it's the stator or not, it's appropriate that I edit the title of this thread to something more accurate. We obviously have something going on with these new stators we installed, we just don't know what it is yet.

But I intend to find out. If I still feel like removing it after a thorough series of tests and I have exhausted all other avenues, I'll send ElectroSport my used ESG130 stator for them to examine. I still want this damn thing to be the saving grace we all wanted it to be. :unsure:

But we got to find out why we are seeing these lower voltage readings we are seeing, when they weren't there before. When I see that Datel display a solid 14.2v at all engine speeds above 3K, with NO wavering when there are no electrical loads on the bike, and only routine, "normal" voltage drops when high-draw accessories are energized, then I'll be happy.

 
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Since people with the stock stator are describing similar readings/problems I would think checking out/replacing the R/R would be a logical place to start. Though I in NO WAY profess to really have any electrical knowledge, just a gut feeling...and a little knowledge of the "half split method" of diagnosis.

How difficult / expensive is it to replace the R/R?

Is there a "beefier" R/R that could be put on the pre '06s?

Would you need a "beefier" R/R or is it possible the org. one is just wearing out (since stock stators are having similar problems)?

Is it possible to move the R/R out of the high heat area it's presently in (like they did with the 06s)?

Gary McCoy might could give you a "good deal" on a new R/R and if that's the prob. we could do a group buy from him and he might could recoup his "losses" from yours through us. (impulse shoppers that we are)

Toophast

 
My FJR only has a couple of power hungry farkles, a set of 55W PIAAs and heated grips and I was trying to power them with a stock stator and R/R. The PIAAs alone were too much for my electrical system so I decided to give the Electrosport stator a go even knowing that it wasn't looking too good for WC. I ran out of time and had to get my motorcycle back together, and as a result didn't get all the information I wanted. I have scope shots I need to go back and review as well as a bunch of electrical readings to sort through. What follows is just putting out some of my measurements without analysis.

When new my FJR would show 14.x volts on my Passport with a fairly steady .x digit. By 20k miles it was reading 13.8 volts with the last digit wandering +/- .5 volts without the PIAAs on. The heated grips made almost no difference in voltage. By 26k miles I was only seeing 13.4 volts and serious wandering of the .x digit. When the PIAAs were first installed I would see 13.8 volts until I turned them on, it would drop to 13.1 volts then slowly descend to 12.8 volts and sort of hang around there for 15-20 minutes then start to drop again. Click – off. At 26k miles turning the PIAAs on resulted in 12.5 volts for a minute or so then it began a bottomless drop where I usually ran out of courage once I started seeing <11.8 volts. The battery in my FJR is a year old, in good shape and had just received 4 hours of charging via a ride that kept the rpms up. Time for the fun to begin.

Previously I had put a scope on my DC voltage line and found ~2 volts of noise. The peak of the noise was 14.3 volts and the bottom was ~12.6. This resulted in an average voltage of 13.4 volts, just about what my DMM showed.

Plastic off, radiator fill hose relocated, R/R exposed, everything stock. I back-probed the +14 Vout of the R/R and started the engine. Readings at the R/R connector: @ 5K rpm = 14.3 volts(!); at the battery terminals it was down to 13.8 volts and on the ignition switched wires it was 13.4 volts – only with basic electrical system loading. Big HHMMMM. Checked the AC from the stock stator to the stock R/R: at idle, it was ~10.x volt square wave @ nominal load; it dropped to 9.x volts at 5k rpm; turned on PIAAs as a full electrical load and the R/R allowed the voltage to rise to 11.x volts – the system was trying to work. One note here is that the square wave looked like one phase was dropping out under full load. I unplugged the stator wires and checked output on all three phases, R/R was totally out of the picture, and found a healthy 72 VAC on each phase. With the stator wires open, the stator output was rock steady. Plugged into the R/R and the AC voltage fluctuated +/- almost a volt. The DC voltage fluctuation mirrored the stator fluctuation. This makes it almost a sure deal that the bouncing voltage is caused by the regulator switching the stator. Because of the resistance in the main power feed line the battery isn't able to provide as much power smoothing as it could.

A quick from the hip conclusion is that under the conditions in my garage the R/R was working ok, there is some question about why the stator showed one phase dropping out. Could be the stator, might be load switching by the R/R. What's up with the big time voltage drop between the R/R and the rest of the electrical system? Err, well this is an adventure waiting for snow season. Will sort out all the little voltage drops then. Right now the big suspect is the main fuse/fuse socket followed by the harness.

In goes a new R/R. Repeat tests. Same as above including the dropped phase of the stator and fluctuations of the AC from the stator. Nothing else to note here.

Off comes the engine stator cover. Two WTFs right away. WTF #1:

Meet crispy, the dark chocolate stator. The wires should be a very light tan. It looked exactly like that even after a solvent wash --- >

Stator.jpg


An even more serious WTF is the rotor, check out the groove cut into the rotor by the stator wire holding bracket:

Rotor.jpg


Grrr. You guys that had a squealing noise for a few minutes after startup now probably know what you were hearing. Hope your oil filter pulled out the lathe shavings.

I had no trouble snaking the R/R weather pack stator connector through the frame. I did move the black plastic shield out a bit then slid the wires down between the plastic shield and the frame until the wires were clear of the shield then the connector just passed right through. After doing all that work I looked at the nice weather pack connector and decided to use it. Snip, snip, snip. Using a good quality crimper and good spade terminals I crimped on the spades to mate with the Electrosport stator connectors. I slipped ~4" lengths of ¼ inch dia shrink sleeve over the connectors. After pulling the Electrosport wires through the frame I plugged the ES wires into the weather pack connector, pulled the shrink sleeve up and shrunk it. The tubing is tight over the wires and will be very water resistant.

Air tools rule! An air ratchet wrench made short work of all the cover screws. An impact wrench set for minimum torque and fitted with precision ground tools made the stator hardware totally painless. I was fortunate that ~95% of the cover gasket stayed on the cover making gasket scraping pretty simple. In goes Big Blue. Reposition the stator wire bracket. Reposition the bracket again until well out of the way of the rotor. Redo hardware in reverse order. Check the check list. Time to try again.

It starts! It runs! No load the stator shows ~66 VAC. Electosport did say they traded some voltage to get extra current. Connect the stator wires to the R/R. Now the scope shows all three phases. With the stator plugged into the R/R I see 10.x VAC at idle at normal system load. At 5k rpm I see 8.x VAC (hmm). Back to 5k rpm and turn on the PIAAs……………11.2 VAC. Not nearly what I was expecting to see. Now at the R/R Red/Black leads I see 14.4 volts; at the battery I see 14.2 volts; with grips (at idle; at the battery) I see 14.0 volts; with PIAAs I see 13.9 volts – after a few minutes I see 13.5 volts – and it looks like it is going to hold there. My Passport, reading the switched ignition voltage shows 13.8 volts, flickering ~.2 volts +/-. With grips it shows 13.6 volts and with the PIAAs it shows 12.5 volts. So, I still have flickering.

So ends round one that was a thrash to finish. If I see one big opportunity for improvement it would be to use 10 ga wire directly from the R/R through a DC circuit breaker like a Bussman automatic resetting circuit breaker going directly to the battery. I will go back and try to make some sense out of all this. I'm making provisions to be able to monitor voltage at both the R/R and battery terminals. Dunno when that will get finished.

 
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