Rotella T6 causing clutch drag and hard shifting?

[jim oneill]

My understanding is that this thread regards the sticky shifting and slow clutch engagement while using Rotella T6 synthetic in a 2013 Fjr1300. The complaints mentioned in the beginning of this thread are exactly what I have experienced after changing to Rotella T6 Synthetic at 400 miles. The first 400 miles were smooth with no issues on whatever the factory/dealer put in the bike at delivery. However at 400 miles I switched to Rotella T6 and immediately noticed the sticky shifts and slow clutch engagement. Again, my bike is a 2013 and I,ve experienced the exact same problem. I,m changing to Mobil 1 motorcycle synthetic today, with a dash of STP and will see what happens.

Not for nothing , however this is my 3rd new FJR that I,ve used Rotella T6 in and have had no issues after using it in my 05 and 08 models so I,m assuming this has something to do specifically with the 2013 model

From reading this thread it looks to me like those with no issues using Rotella T6 synthetic are using it in older model years

I,d be interested in hearing from other 2013 owners who have experienced this problem

 

[petey]

I experienced the sticking clutch on my '13 FJR after about 1200 miles and this was after my 2nd oil change with 10w40 Yamalube...go figure...I had my dealer pull and soak the clutch plates (under warranty) I now have ~8K miles on the bike and she still shifts like butter.

 

[rbentnail]

I experienced the sticking clutch on my '13 FJR after about 1200 miles and this was after my 2nd oil change with 10w40 Yamalube...go figure...I had my dealer pull and soak the clutch plates (under warranty) I now have ~8K miles on the bike and she still shifts like butter.

Ah yes, the ol' clutch plate soak. My '07 was a recipient of that way back when.

 

[jim oneill]

For whatever its worth, I changed the oil in my 2013 from Rotella T6 Synthetic with a touch of STP to Mobil 1 Motorcycle Synthetic yesterday, also with a touch of STP and the same problem still exists. Upon engaging the clutch lever there is a 1 second or so lapse before it seems to engage. In downshifting especially from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd I find that I have to engage the clutch and then hesitate for a second before shifting. If I don,t it sticks and shifts with difficulty

Anybody else experience this with their 2013?

 

[Fred W]

Not to pick nits, but I think that you have your terminology backwards, and that may cause some confusion.

A clutch is "engaged" when the clutch lever is released and the clutch plates engage each other to drive the bike forwards.

A clutch is "disengaged" by pulling the lever in, which allows the clutch to disengage the engine from the transmission and rest of the drive train.

Based on the above, I think you meant to say:

"Upon pulling in the clutch lever there is a 1 second or so lapse before it seems to disengage. In downshifting especially from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd I find that I have to pull in the clutch lever and then hesitate for a second before shifting. If I don't it sticks and shifts with difficulty"

The above would be a classic symptom of excessive clutch drag. I would want to be sure that the bike has the clutch plates free and properly oil lubricated via the "clutch soak" procedure.

** No need to actually soak the clutch plates. Just clean them, oil them up and reinstall them to make sure they are free to slip when the clutch is disengaged

 

[gixxerjasen]

Ok, so let's say I am buying into the voodoo regarding this T6 stuff, and I'm not yet but it seems there might possibly be something to it, so here goes.

I've been using T6 in my bike since I got it, which wasn't new. However, I've recently been getting the SH__46 error on my bike which I've posted about on another thread. I've as yet been unable to find the cause of the issue despite all the checks in the service manual.

Now here's the kicker...and why I may be inclined to buy in. The error showed up within a day or so of changing the oil. I've checked and there's no way I messed up any of the AE system during that oil change, so I wrote it off as not being the oil and was just a coincidence. But if the oil voodoo is true, the I could see this causing an issue with the AE system. I may be inclined to switch oil on my next change and see if the problem goes away.

My only thoughts are this. If the clutch doesn't see much oil except for splashing, and we know it doesn't because of issues we've seen with the clutch not getting enough oil and needing a soak, then how could these problems manifest themselves with the clutch so quickly after new oil goes in?

 

[jim oneill]

Not to pick nits, but I think that you have your terminology backwards, and that may cause some confusion.
A clutch is "engaged" when the clutch lever is released and the clutch plates engage each other to drive the bike forwards.

A clutch is "disengaged" by pulling the lever in, which allows the clutch to disengage the engine from the transmission and rest of the drive train.

Based on the above, I think you meant to say:

"Upon pulling in the clutch lever there is a 1 second or so lapse before it seems to disengage. In downshifting especially from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd I find that I have to pull in the clutch lever and then hesitate for a second before shifting. If I don't it sticks and shifts with difficulty"

The above would be a classic symptom of excessive clutch drag. I would want to be sure that the bike has the clutch plates free and properly oil lubricated via the "clutch soak" procedure.

** No need to actually soak the clutch plates. Just clean them, oil them up and reinstall them to make sure they are free to slip when the clutch is disengaged

Ok, thanks!!!

 

[SouthernCruizer]

<SNIP>
My only thoughts are this. If the clutch doesn't see much oil except for splashing, and we know it doesn't because of issues we've seen with the clutch not getting enough oil and needing a soak, then how could these problems manifest themselves with the clutch so quickly after new oil goes in?

That's why I just call it a head shaking deal. Rotella goes in, bad shifting starts..Rotella comes out, Honda Pro goes in, smooth shifting ensues. This is just one of the many mysteries of life I have yet to figure out.

 

[mcatrophy]

My only thoughts are this. If the clutch doesn't see much oil except for splashing, and we know it doesn't because of issues we've seen with the clutch not getting enough oil and needing a soak, then how could these problems manifest themselves with the clutch so quickly after new oil goes in?

That's why I just call it a head shaking deal. Rotella goes in, bad shifting starts..Rotella comes out, Honda Pro goes in, smooth shifting ensues. This is just one of the many mysteries of life I have yet to figure out.

Maybe a dry clutch plate doesn't wick new oil in, whereas once wet, it will?

 

[900gc]

<SNIP>
My only thoughts are this. If the clutch doesn't see much oil except for splashing, and we know it doesn't because of issues we've seen with the clutch not getting enough oil and needing a soak, then how could these problems manifest themselves with the clutch so quickly after new oil goes in?

That's why I just call it a head shaking deal. Rotella goes in, bad shifting starts..Rotella comes out, Honda Pro goes in, smooth shifting ensues. This is just one of the many mysteries of life I have yet to figure out.

As with all parts, the gears and clutch have manufacturing tolerances, especially when stack up is involved it can create a fair amount of variation between machines. That being said, I wonder if the molecular makeup, ie. additives, etc., of different oils really does interact somewhat uniquely based on this, resulting in each machine "preferring" a particular oil.

 

[Bungie]

As with all parts, the gears and clutch have manufacturing tolerances, especially when stack up is involved it can create a fair amount of variation between machines. That being said, I wonder if the molecular makeup, ie. additives, etc., of different oils really does interact somewhat uniquely based on this, resulting in each machine "preferring" a particular oil.

When the results don't match the theory, invent a new theory.

I've used Rotella exclusively for about 3 years on my 04. Bike seems to like it. I've got a gallon of Rotella to go into my '13 when I find the time before the snow flies. Mine shifts like butter with the factory YamaLoob in it, and again after an oil change coming back from EOM. No clue what they put in it though. It'll be interesting to see if their is noticeable degradation in shifting/clutching after the Rotella goes in.

 

[RossKean]

Has anyone compared the part numbers for the clutch stack on the '13 to Gen II bikes? I suppose there could be a transmission difference as well although this hasn't really been advertised. I have no problem with Rotella Synthetic T6 (without additives like STP). Not saying that others don't have a problem but I will continue to use it. 100,000+ miles; no issues so far!

 

[900gc]

As with all parts, the gears and clutch have manufacturing tolerances, especially when stack up is involved it can create a fair amount of variation between machines. That being said, I wonder if the molecular makeup, ie. additives, etc., of different oils really does interact somewhat uniquely based on this, resulting in each machine "preferring" a particular oil.When the results don't match the theory, invent a new theory.

I've used Rotella exclusively for about 3 years on my 04. Bike seems to like it. I've got a gallon of Rotella to go into my '13 when I find the time before the snow flies. Mine shifts like butter with the factory YamaLoob in it, and again after an oil change coming back from EOM. No clue what they put in it though. It'll be interesting to see if their is noticeable degradation in shifting/clutching after the Rotella goes in.

Hey, I'm running for political office soon so I'm practicing.

I run T-6 w/STP added and it works great in my bike. Cleaning and lubing the shifter and clutch lever pivot points made an appreciable difference in shifting quality.

Oil testing articles reveal that there can be a huge difference in the lab test results, so there is quite a difference in oils per se (at least in the lab). Now how this translates to the real world is anybody's guess.

 

[pcarnut]

Here's my .02. After three or four changes with the Rotella T6, decided to try Mobil 1 High Mileage 10-40 with 4 oz. of STP. Very pleased, she shifts smoother and runs smoother, it's my new standard.

 

[RossKean]

I did a little reading on the Mobil 1 high mileage oil. A lot of opinions out there but the oil does not have an "energy conserving" stamp on it which is a good thing for wet clutches. The oil does not have a JASO-MA rating which means that it isn't certified for MC applications - doesn't mean it isn't OK but might just mean it hasn't been tested and certified. The monograph on the oil says it contains "seal conditioners"; whatever they are. Wonder if it could cause issues with gaskets, clutch etc.?

I read entries in a number of MC forums and it seems a few people are using it and I didn't read about specific issues or problems. Without more evidence, I don't think I would consider it but then again, I have been happy using the Rotella T6 for the last 100,000 miles. I am finding that the price for the T6 has been going up (more than other oils) for the past couple of years so I would be open to a less costly alternative. I know conventional (non-synthetic) oils are cheaper and should work as well if changed at appropriate intervals but the synthetic makes me feel better (no particular reason).

Let us know if you run into any problems with the High Mileage Mobil 1 stuff.

 

[ionbeam]

I do have a concern about using oils for High Mileage engines, dunno if it is a legitimate issue but it gets my attention. The following lines are copy/paste directly from the oil company's web sites:

• Mobil 1 High Mileage contains seal swell that will help eliminate leakage
• additives to help stop leaks from seals
• contain seal conditioners to help prevent engine leaks

Remembering back to '03 to '05, some FJRs experienced excessive valve guide wear due to tight valve stem seals starving the guides of oil. This leads to valve stems rattling in the guides (the source of the dreaded TICK noise) and the worn guides let excessive oil pass into the exhaust system. Yamaha's fix was to install looser stem seals. While the looser seals may allow an increase in oil leaking past the seals (miniscule amount) it keeps the guides lubed to prevent accelerated wear. Putting a seal swelling agent in the engine *might* not be a good thing. How much do the seals swell? If it creates a problem, how long before it starts to show up? Then again this may be nothing...

Also, these High Mileage oils tend to have lower detergent and dispersant content to prevent causing leaks around seals and gaskets that have been sealed by gunk and varnish over the years.

 

[RaYzerman19]

I would have the same concerns as Alan....... remember that old Fram commercial, "you can pay me now or pay me later"? I personally wouldn't use the high miler stuff. You are better off in the long run sticking with the tried and true oils that you know don't cause problems.......... oil is the blood of your expensive motorcycle.

 

[FJRMGM]

I have been using the Rotella T syn for the last 98,000 miles with no problem - then I used the new T6 in the last oil change and it DOES NOT shift as well as the old formulation, particularly when the bike is good and hot. Notice it more on downshifts than any other time.

So I am looking for some different oil to use.

 

[RavFJR]

My bike hates Rotella T6... It went in and it was hard to shift, drained and used Castrol Actevo with smooth shifting again... When I needed an oil change I went back to Rotella T6 (had some left over) and the hard shifting reappeared. No more Rotella for me...

 

[willboe]

A while back, I had significant bad behavior with my 2006 AE shifting, while running with: Shell Rotella T6 "TRUE SYNTHETIC". I emphasize that, because I believe the dinosaur Rotella would not affect my shifting in this adverse way. That is pure speculation at this point, because I just don't have much confidence in Rotella in any of it's forms, so I will not put it in my bike. Enough of what does not work for me. Today, after 3600 miles, I drained the Valvoline 20/50 Semi-Synthetic Motorcycle oil, with wet clutch 'enhancments' (around $7.50 per quart), from my AE. It had performed 'ok'. I thought my shifts, both up & down, took a millisecond or 3 of timing finesse on my part to be most effective (effective to me means high performance & FAST response). After draining the Valvoline, I replaced it with: Lucas 10/40 Semi Synthetic Motorcycle Oil with 'wet clutch enhancements' (around $7.50 per quart). Feels like a different bike! My sampling is small, only about 70 miles, but it felt great; shifted smoother, and faster up and down, and the motor seemed smoother too. The smoother could, of course be attributed to; 'I just did some maintenance. so I'm paying more attention.' phenomenon, but the shifting could not be denied (yep that quickly). I am only posting this now, after a small number of test miles, because it was so delightful to experience the 'new' shifting paradigm. Of course that all may change after a few hundred miles, but I hope it does not. I will post more about running with this Lucas oil in the coming weeks.

If anybody else has experience with this Lucas 10/40 Motorcycle Oil with Wet Clutch enhancements, please post & share your experience. So far I am in, feels like a different bike.