Rotella T6 causing clutch drag and hard shifting?

[user 18638]

I've been using 50% T6 and Castrol GTX 10/40 in my '06, no problem. But I once used Mobil 1 red cap and had a flat the next day!

 

[Fred W]

I was doing my 85k mile service the other day, which of course includes an oil change. Lately I have been using synthetic Mobil1 15W50 oil (it is slightly cheaper per quart than Rotella T synthetic) and have been pretty happy with it overall. It is rates API service class SN, and though it is not JASO MA certified, it is not an energy conserving oil formula and has never been a problem on the wet clutch of the FJR.

While I was waiting for the oil level to settle in the sight glass I scanned the back of the jug and noticed something interesting:

"Mobil 1 15W50 contains extra anti-wear protection (zinc) for high performance engines. Its high viscosity provides a thick oil film to protect critical engine parts. Mobil 1 15W50 race proven technology is suitable for a wide range of motorsports applications"

I checked on the back of a bottle of Mobil 1 0W40 euro formula (the only oil recommended by SAAB for their high output turbo engines) and that doesn't have the added zinc statement.

 

[FJRMGM]

I was doing my 85k mile service the other day, which of course includes an oil change. Lately I have been using synthetic Mobil1 15W50 oil (it is slightly cheaper per quart than Rotella T synthetic) and have been pretty happy with it overall. It is rates API service class SN, and though it is not JASO MA certified, it is not an energy conserving oil formula and has never been a problem on the wet clutch of the FJR.
While I was waiting for the oil level to settle in the sight glass I scanned the back of the jug and noticed something interesting:

"Mobil 1 15W50 contains extra anti-wear protection (zinc) for high performance engines. Its high viscosity provides a thick oil film to protect critical engine parts. Mobil 1 15W50 race proven technology is suitable for a wide range of motorsports applications"

I checked on the back of a bottle of Mobil 1 0W40 euro formula (the only oil recommended by SAAB for their high output turbo engines) and that doesn't have the added zinc statement.

and so this is why we add four oz. of STP Oil Treatment right? To add back in zinc.

 

[ionbeam]

Small amounts of zinc is good and the amount of STP being mentioned here is fine, but reading publication SAE technical article 2004-01-2986 shows that too much zinc is unhealthy for high pressure areas like the cam lobes. There are other products like ZDDPlus which adds both zinc and phosphorus.

 

[Fred W]

I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that the term "zinc" was being used generically for ZDDP, which seems to be the favorite zinc compound of oil manufacturers these days.

 

[superfuzz]

I've used both conventional and synthetic HD oils in my bikes (VTR1000, VFR800, now the FJR) over the years with really good results (based on UOA's from Blackstone.)

When I first got my FJR, I used Delo 400 (15W-40) and it worked great as usual. The first fall/winter I had the FJR I switched to Rotella T6 for the better cold-start protection of the 5W-40 and noticed a change in the shifting. Not as dramatic a problem as the OP but it was notchier and "clunkier." Switched back to the Delo 400 and shifting improved.

I think the T6 is a great oil, and I still use it in my high-mileage Audi, but in the FJR the Delo 400 (maybe just the 15W-40 viscosity) seems better.

 

[pcarnut]

I did a little reading on the Mobil 1 high mileage oil. A lot of opinions out there but the oil does not have an "energy conserving" stamp on it which is a good thing for wet clutches. The oil does not have a JASO-MA rating which means that it isn't certified for MC applications - doesn't mean it isn't OK but might just mean it hasn't been tested and certified. The monograph on the oil says it contains "seal conditioners"; whatever they are. Wonder if it could cause issues with gaskets, clutch etc.?
I read entries in a number of MC forums and it seems a few people are using it and I didn't read about specific issues or problems. Without more evidence, I don't think I would consider it but then again, I have been happy using the Rotella T6 for the last 100,000 miles. I am finding that the price for the T6 has been going up (more than other oils) for the past couple of years so I would be open to a less costly alternative. I know conventional (non-synthetic) oils are cheaper and should work as well if changed at appropriate intervals but the synthetic makes me feel better (no particular reason).

Let us know if you run into any problems with the High Mileage Mobil 1 stuff.

Well, wanted to update. After about 1500 miles the notchiness seems about what I was getting with the Rotella T6 so the High Mileage will come out shortly and some Actevo will go in. We'll see how that works. May also do a clutch soak, beginning to think this might really be the issue since I get a pretty good clunk first thing in the morning.

 

[pcarnut]

I did a little reading on the Mobil 1 high mileage oil. A lot of opinions out there but the oil does not have an "energy conserving" stamp on it which is a good thing for wet clutches. The oil does not have a JASO-MA rating which means that it isn't certified for MC applications - doesn't mean it isn't OK but might just mean it hasn't been tested and certified. The monograph on the oil says it contains "seal conditioners"; whatever they are. Wonder if it could cause issues with gaskets, clutch etc.?
I read entries in a number of MC forums and it seems a few people are using it and I didn't read about specific issues or problems. Without more evidence, I don't think I would consider it but then again, I have been happy using the Rotella T6 for the last 100,000 miles. I am finding that the price for the T6 has been going up (more than other oils) for the past couple of years so I would be open to a less costly alternative. I know conventional (non-synthetic) oils are cheaper and should work as well if changed at appropriate intervals but the synthetic makes me feel better (no particular reason).

Let us know if you run into any problems with the High Mileage Mobil 1 stuff.

Update. No problems per se after 1500 miles with the High Mileage but the notchiness has returned and is about the same as the Rotella so I'm going to dump it and try the Actevo. Also thinking that a clutch soak might be in order, since it's always been a little notchy shifting and I get a pretty good clunk first thing in the morning.

 

[Fred W]

... and I get a pretty good clunk first thing in the morning.

Just be aware... they all do that, even the ones that shift perfectly fine while riding. It is just a case of the drive side of the transmission free-wheeling due to the inherent friction in the clutch pack. When you shift into gear the freewheeling gear dogs engage with the stationary, driven gear dogs and... kerchunk!

The only ways I know of to eliminate the "kerchunk" (good Google term FWIW) is to either start the bike in gear with the clutch in, which puts an added load on the poor little starter motor when cold, or else pull the clutch in after starting and wait, or giving it a few quick revs to break the clutch loose, before shifting into gear. Neither of these things are really necessary as the transmissions seem capable of withstanding kerchunking for a long, long time.

 

[El Toro Joe]

No problems with the Rotella T6...none, nada, zilch!

 

[Allen_C]

No problems with the Rotella T6...none, nada, zilch!

Same here.

I used in in my '08AE and it shifted as smoothly after as it did before I made the switch. At 350 miles I changed my oil for the first time in my '14ES from stock to T6 and although only had weather and time to ride it another 50 miles so far, it has not changed its smooth shifting character.

 

[jim oneill]

OK here we go again, I used Rotella T6 in both my new 05 and 08s with no issues at all while also adding a touch of STP at oil changes.

Decided to go the same route with my 13 but had bad results. Immediately after switching at 500 miles from whatever was in the bike at delivery to Rotella Synthetic and a bit of STP I began having hard shifting problems especially downshifting from 5th to 4th and 4th to 3rd. Upshifting was not smooth either.

After investigating clutch soak posts here on the forum I went to my dealer with the problem. They told me not to use synthetic in the 13 and to also not put the STP in as well. The did a clutch soak under warranty and changed the oil with regular Yamalube.

I know there will be naysayers out there but the proof is in the performance with me as I can say that the bike shifts both up and down as smooth as butter now after the clutch soak and Yamalube oil change. They strongly suggested I stay with regular oil and not to put synthetic or STP in my 2013

For whatever its worth I sold my 08 to my brother who has continued using Rotella synthetic and STP with no issues s go figure! All I know is that my 13 now runs terrific with regular oil

 

[petey]

I don't mean to dispute your findings but i went through the very same issues, ( with my 2013, klunky and hard shifting) and only had used Yamalube (no T6 no STP).... All is well, for over 5K miles, since the clutch soak...go figure. I'll probably use T6 for my next oil change and see what happens......

 

[Bungie]

I don't mean to dispute your findings but i went through the very same issues, ( with my 2013, klunky and hard shifting) and only had used Yamalube (no T6 no STP).... All is well, for over 5K miles, since the clutch soak...go figure. I'll probably use T6 for my next oil change and see what happens......

Mine has shifted like buttah' since day one. 3 oil changes in 6000 miles - both YamahaLoob. I've got a gallon of Rotella sitting here waiting for spring. We'll see how it goes. I've used Rotella in my Gen1 for a 100,000 miles.

 

[bwv]

Fred is dead on with the cold kerchunk... pull in the clutch and a gentle blip to break the clutch loose quick for the first shift into gear.

Cold oil, on a big multiplate clutch like that thats been pressed together all night is gonna have some stiction. I always blip before the first click into gear, and get no kerchunk at all (unless i dont...then i do)

I had a horribly sticky clutch at 600mi... so bad i was wondering what kind of piece of shit i spent $13k on... i did a clutch soak (thanks again guys!) and the bike shifts amazing... like a fine machine should, at 4500mi with no sign of issue return.

Yamaha should just list it as a 600 mile service item "Remove clutch discs, clean thouroughly, soak in motor oil for a couple hours, replace clutch discs"

 

[jim oneill]

I don,t get it? If your bike is doing well with the Yamalube then why would you switch?

 

[Bungie]

I don,t get it? If your bike is doing well with the Yamalube then why would you switch?

$$

 

[Fred W]

Yamalube 20W50 msrp 21 but available < $20 / gallon online

Shell Rotella T6 5W40 Synthetic $21.36 @ Wally World (this is what most people are using and calling "Rotella T" and is what this thread is about)

Shell Rotella T 15W40 non-synthetic $12.97 @ Wally World.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Yup...Yamalube Semi-Synthetic 10-40 is about the same price as the Rotella T6 and only a few dollars more than the standard Rotella that's in my bike now. I have a gallon of Castro MC oil that's going in this next change. After that, it'll be all Yamalube. The price difference is not enough to care about.

 

[bgross]

-snip-
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Rotella-T-15W40-Motor-Oil-1-Gal/14958327]Shell Rotella T 15W40 non-synthetic $12.97 @ Wally World.

^^^^This. Works for me.