Zumo 660 first impressions

[bramfrank]

So, this brings me to the latest issue with the Zumo - alluded to in the above post;

Because the road detail is so limited, the only way to see local road detail more than a few miles away on a Zumo 660 with version 2.80 firware and 2010 maps is to use the 'browse map'.

The browse map is accessed by tapping the screen anywhere on the map except for where the vehicle is depicted. This will bring up map that allows you to browse and such. By touching and sliding your finger you can drag the map around.

This feature is NOT available when safe mode is disabled and the unit is in the bike mount and the bike is in motion. It DOES work when in the automotive mount and the car is in motion. A real inconsistency.

Given the lack of road detail, we need browse mode (actually, having the detail would be preferable IMHO). Ideally both road detail AND browse mode, but who is being greedy?

One thing mentioned by one of the posters on the Zumoforums site was that my report here highlights only the negative aspects of the Zumo 660.

To be honest, I expect that everyone here KNOWS what a navigator is supposed to do. If someone really feels it important, I certainly can write up a 'what it does well' document. But the reality is that if I am not complaining about something, it can be assumed that the device does whatever it is well (or that I haven't gotten around to testing it).

Let me know.

 

[coyotedude]

Hey man, thanks for the updates, they certainly have given me pause before hitting the 'buy' button on the new Zumo a couple of times. I've learned my lesson on LCD tv's, Ipods, whatever... and I'm by no means a tech guy, but a new

iteration of any product has some risk, and as tech oriented as you appear to be, I'm sure you're also well aware of this

fact.

In any event, grab a cold one, and ease out of that tree....... ain't worth the mental energy to get riled by baffoons

stabbing at your opinions from the safety of their Lazy Boy. Cheers.

MD

 

[Rick_W]

I was banned from one of the .45 Auto forums when I posted to a guy telling him his older model Colt 1911 was only worth something if he wanted to keep it (he wanted to trade it for a Bushmaster AR). After they deleted my first post (accusing me of trying to circumvent the rules for buying/selling), I reposted in a more general way - I told him if the AR was equal to the Colt 1911 in his opinion, that was all that mattered. Banned for life. Fuck 'em.

Edit to add: I appreciate your posts on this topic. I will be looking for a new GPS after my next deployment. Would prefer the 276C (bright, no touch screen) but with built in maps (including POI) and speak street names. I've grown rather fond of being able to look down and see a street name to turn on, rather than "turn right in 200 feet. Especially when streets are close together or I'm traveling rather fast.

 

[bramfrank]

Update:

in the absence of ANY developments or news whatsoever from ANYONE at Garmin, I have written my review for Epinions.com.

I gave the device one star out of five - the unit just doesn't deliver the value and is too loaded with bugs.

You can read the review here: https://www.epinions.com/review/Garmin_zumo...nt_473572675204

 

[Shane Stump]

Update:
in the absence of ANY developments or news whatsoever from ANYONE at Garmin, I have written my review for Epinions.com.

I gave the device one star out of five - the unit just doesn't deliver the value and is too loaded with bugs.

You can read the review here: https://www.epinions.com/review/Garmin_zumo...nt_473572675204

Ouch (I can't imagine what it would be like to spend hours on tech support and get nowhere )!

Thanks for the long detailed / well thought out review!

I guess I will need to remove it from the list when I get my new bike!

So what is your current short list of motorcycle friendly GPSs?

Thanks,

Shane

 

[happyPuppy]

I would look at going back to the Garmin Zumo 450/550, the Quest Series , Street Pilot 2820, as they pretty cheap used and see if the fix the 660 and then pick one up again as a stop gap. I have never used the Tom-Tom Rider GPS Bike GPS but they are fairly popular although quirky in some ways when i played with it. I suspect we will see more firmware revisions of the 660 as well as another Zumo. I have heard sales of the 660 are pretty far behind the 550. In fact on E-Bay people are selling the 550 for more than the 660, which I think your experience is not isolated. I suspect that the move away from the MSN direct may have had something to do with the future of the service. The service started on the smart watches ( which they abandoned) and maybe another soon to be orphaned MSFT product service. They did it with the "Play4Sure" MP3 player line also and I assume they had a larger base of users.

 

[bramfrank]

I would look at going back to the Garmin Zumo 450/550, the Quest Series , Street Pilot 2820, as they pretty cheap used and see if the fix the 660 and then pick one up again as a stop gap. I have never used the Tom-Tom Rider GPS Bike GPS but they are fairly popular although quirky in some ways when i played with it. I suspect we will see more firmware revisions of the 660 as well as another Zumo. I have heard sales of the 660 are pretty far behind the 550. In fact on E-Bay people are selling the 550 for more than the 660, which I think your experience is not isolated. I suspect that the move away from the MSN direct may have had something to do with the future of the service. The service started on the smart watches ( which they abandoned) and maybe another soon to be orphaned MSFT product service. They did it with the "Play4Sure" MP3 player line also and I assume they had a larger base of users.

Note that the 550 has a higher MSRP than the 660.

There is no move away from MSN Direct - in fact the unit supports it - in the original unenhanced mode - MSN have been enhancing the offering, adding in flight arrival times and such to the mix - they are guaranteeing a minimum of 3 years' service support for lifetinme subscriptins - so essentially there is a floating minimum 3 year life window for the service.

The complaint is that you can't use MSN Direct with the unit when it is in the bike mount. As well, there is no XM support.

Alternatives?

GPSMap 276c, 378/478 (whch are my faves as far as pure navigators go) - doesn't hurt that the 378/478 support XM, though they don't have MP3 players or Bluetooth. they have the very best displays out there. Also, the Zumo 550 was pretty good (assuming they haven't crippled the screen detail and upcoming street displays with recent firmware updates) , though the screen is less readable than the 276 family devices.

Then, trailing behind is the TomTom Rider 2. The rider is very quirky and TT mapping isn't quite up to snuff for North America.

For a lower tier offering, the Quest-II and Garmin Nuvi 500 series are waterproof and motorcycle friendly - I wouldn't be surprised to see it rebranded as a Zumo at some point.

On the other hand, the latest map updates from Garmin seem to have some issues across the lineup . . .

Options from discontinued products that I would consider:

- Zumo 450

- GPSMAP 376c (which includes the XM pod)

- 2730

- 2820

- Quest

- 2610

All of which can be bought NOH at very good prices.

 

[bk000]

What would this rant look like if you had actually had to pay for the Zumo? h34r:

 

[bramfrank]

What would this rant look like if you had actually had to pay for the Zumo? h34r:

Think about it . . .

Note that I paid for the original 550. I got the 660 in exchange as part of my 'upgrades for life' program. So the reality is that I DID pay for it. I just got a great deal (well, I THOUGHT it was a great deal).

 

[bramfrank]

Has it only been 3 weeks since I updated this thread? My how time flies when you have nothing to do . . .

I've been a busy beaver. I installed (and subsequently removed) an HID conversion kit for my headlights; I've finally installed my Audiovox cruise control. I installed new rubber front and rear - and, because no one has brake pads in stock I did a shuffle of the front pads to get me through an upcoming 5,000 mile ride.

Which, of course brings us to the Zumo.

I purchased an 8 Gig Micro-SD card (because according to Garmin that is the largest card the unit will accept - more later) and was disappointed that it didn't work - this was a 'brand' thing. Be aware that not all MicroSD cards are the same; I returned the card for a full credit and actually spent LESS to buy another 8 Gig card (from A-Data) that works just fine with the 1472 songs I've loaded on it.

The headphone jack on the unit provides nice quality output, though there is no equaliser, so you might want to bear that in mind.

Garmin's release of firmware version 3.10 to resolve their screw-up with their GPS chip supplier had no attached change log. But Garmin clearly made a couple of minor changes that have appeared. (units were bricking after the GPS network initiated some changes - traced to bad code in several of their navigators as a result of the fact that the chip suppliers hadn't implemented the new mechanisms inside their design and Garmin never tested for it).

So, now you can use the browse map while in motion.

But it still suffers from the screen detail and upcoming cross-street issues along with serious Bluetooth, screen paint, route loading and so on.

On the cross-street displays, someone on another board has mentioned that Garmin lost a case involving patent infringement on that issue - though I can't quite appreciate how one might actually defend a patent for something so obvious. If it is true, then I, for one will not be buying any more navigators from Garmin.

Sound harsh? It isn't. Showing the name of the upcoming cross streets is on the top three for my list of navigator requirements when the unit is not actively guiding you to a destination.

The summary is that Zumo 660 still sucks.

 

[Shane Stump]

Has it only been 3 weeks since I updated this thread? My how time flies when you have nothing to do . . .
I've been a busy beaver. I installed (and subsequently removed) an HID conversion kit for my headlights; I've finally installed my Audiovox cruise control. I installed new rubber front and rear - and, becauise no one has brake pads in stiock I did a shuffle of the front pads to get me through an upcoming 5,000 mile ride.

Which, of course brings us to the Zumo.

I purchased an 8 Gig Micro-SD card (because according to Garmin that is the largest card the unit will accespt - more later) and was disappointed that it didn't work - this was a 'brand' thing. Be aware that not all MicroSD cards are the same; I returned the card for a ful credit and actually spent LESS to buy another 8 Gig card (from A-Data) that works just fine with the 1472 songs I've loaded on it.

The headphone jack on the unit provides nioce quality output, though there is no equaliser, so you might want to bear that in mind.

Garmin's release of firmware version 3.10 to resolve their screw-up with their GPS chip supplier had no attached changelog. But Garmin clearly made a couple of minor changes that have appeared. (units were bricking after the GPS network initiated some changes - traced to bad code in several of their navigators as a result of the fact that the chip suppliers hadn;t implemented the new mechanisms inside their design and Garmin never tested for it).

So, now you can use the browse map while in motion.

But it still suffers from the screen detail and upcoming cross-street issues along with serious Bluetooth, screen paint, route loading and so on.

On the cross-street displays, someone on another board has mentioned that Garmin lost a case involving patent infringement on that issue - though I can't quite appreciate how one might actually defend a patent for something so obvious. If it is true, then I, for one will not be buying any more navigators from Garmin.

Sound harsh? It isn't. Showing the name of the upcoming cross streets is on the top three for my list of navigator requirements when the unit is not actively guiding you to a destination.

The summary is that Zumo 660 still sucks.

Your review is what caused me to purchase a Nuvi 885... since I will be swapping it in/out of one of the cars and I got it for $375, I figured voice commands in the car would be nice (I really don't need the phone integration on the bike if that doesn't work via bluetooth)!

Best regards,

Shane

 

[Allnight]

I found referenced to v3.20 having come out in July 2009.

Have you tried it out, to see if it addressed any of your issues?

I'm considering picking one up...even after your posts here.

 

[bramfrank]

I found referenced to v3.20 having come out in July 2009.
Have you tried it out, to see if it addressed any of your issues?

I'm considering picking one up...even after your posts here.

I just got back from a 4,000+ mile road trip using the Zumo 660. It was, pretty much useable, though it had it's issues. I know that I missed out some interesting side riding because of the street detail issues; And the street naming issues were just annoying. That the unit locked up a couple of times and spontaneously turned itself off without notice was pure annoyance. I'm not going into any of the other issues at this point.

The good news was that when it locked up I didn't need a special tool to remove the battery. The bad news was that when the 550 acted up, it was ONLY on power-up, and then ONLY when it was cold out. And you didn't miss the navigation instructions, the way I did (which was how I figured out it locked up - I was expecting announcements that never came).

Now to answer your question:

If you speak Croatian, then 3.20 does something for you.

3.20 only includes a fix to the firmware having something to do with the unit's handling of that language as well as something with the interface to the webupdater that causes the system to offer voice updates even if they've already been done - the latter was ineffective, my unit still offers me all of the languages when I connect using the updater.

Makes you wonder why they even bothered to release 3.20 as an update at all.

While 3.10 included three formally undocumented changes (it allowed uses to access the browse map when the unit is mounted on a powered motorcycle mount; It resolved *some* of the routing issues; There were some changes to the Bluetooth interface which really had no material impact), 3.20 has no such additional benefits.

In other words, nothing much has changed.

Garmin is (according to rumors) readying a huge update that ought to be released near the end of August . . . . given that it appears these days that every step forward with Garmin is accompanied by a number of backward baby steps and, keeping in mind that there are some fundamental flaws in the basic implementation of the device, waiting to see just what it is that Garmin does is probably the most prudent action one could take.

I still suggest that if you must purchase a Motorcycle-specific navigator today, and if it has to include an MP3 player and Bluetooth support, you would likely do better purchasing a known-good device and go with the Zumo 550.

If you are looking for the most flexible device with the best display in the industry and you DON'T need the MP3, Bluetooth and touchscreen features (though you CAN have XM radio and weather, something not available on the 660) the 376/378/478 would be my personal choices.

As the likely successor to the 376+ series I'd also like to get my hands on a GPSMAP 640 an run that through it's paces. Though I've heard that it has some issues in it's automotive operating mode.

You know, I had a huge run-in with the moderators of the zumoforums web site for having the temerity (balls) to suggest that the unit was in some way flawed. Naturally, since that time the membership there seems to have opened their eyes. However earlier this week, the owner of that site went onto ANOTHER GPS site and launched a completely spontaneous attack against me. Apparently he actually joined the site just to post his tirade!!

What was most interesting was that he actually went out of his way to state during his rant that the Zumo 660 was a disappointment and that the community was 'hoping' Garmin would step up (to quote from his post; ". . . . Anyway, it's too bad that Zumo (and other models) didn't deliver as we had hoped...although I am STILL hopeful . . .").

However 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'. Waiting is fine. But spending between $600 and $800 for a premium navigator that doesn't do what is needed, in the hopes that the manufacturer will react to criticism is IMO rather foolish. Maybe Garmin WILL step up and resolve the issues. But the reality is that they sell a lot more consumer and marine navigators than they do Motorcycle-specific ones. And they have HUGE support issues, so I, for one am not holding MY breath.

I would buy the unit that does what I need it to, today. And that one is not the Zumo 660 as things stand.

 

[Harald]

That the unit locked up a couple of times and spontaneously turned itself off without notice was pure annoyance. I'm not going into any of the other issues at this point.
The good news was that when it locked up I didn't need a special tool to remove the battery. The bad news was that when the 550 acted up, it was ONLY on power-up, and then ONLY when it was cold out. And you didn't miss the navigation instructions, the way I did (which was how I figured out it locked up - I was expecting announcements that never came).

I've got to wonder if they use a common faulty chip supplier or program the same fault into all their gps's? I have a Garmin Rino 530 (combo gps and gmrs radio) that locks up unannounced. Two friends also have identical radios with the same problem. I can't tell you how annoying it is to repeatedly try to call your friend on the radio and get no response because your radio is locked up. The display looks normal, but nothing works including the power button. Yes, the battery must be removed to restart the unit.

I think I might wait before taking the motorcycle gps plunge.....

 

[MCML]

The summary is that Zumo 660 still sucks.

Looks as if the ol' Street Pilot III is gonna' stay on the bike for another year!

 

[bramfrank]

Quick update time:

The bike mount was defective - Audio presented to the external microphone jack was very distorted - reports have indicated that a large percentage of Zumos have defective mounts and that this is the symptom.

This, coupled with the fact that my unit managed to lose it's internal mapping prompted me to remove the mount (which involves tipping the fuel tank up, removing the crossbar, undoing the left side cover and the cover over the ECU and unthreading the umbilical.

I then went by the distributor and exchanged the unit, came home and re-installed the mount.

Didn't make any difference. Transmitted audio is still very distorted.

However, at least I now have mapping on the navigator itself.

I'm still waiting for this huge software update to show up.

 

[jmdaniel]

The bike mount was defective - Audio presented to the external microphone jack was very distorted - reports have indicated that a large percentage of Zumos have defective mounts and that this is the symptom.

Well, at least that is consistent with the 550 mount, although with different, but still crappy, results.

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

"I'm still waiting for this huge software update to show up."

Please keep us all updated on your Garmin 660 trials and tribulations. Your posts are extremely informative.

 

[bramfrank]

In responding to another post I was reminded that I have yet to do a write up on the latest developments with the Zumo 660.

Version 3.30 firmware was released recently. According to the change log, the following was resolved:

Added MSN Direct v3 support

Added reverse route functionality

Added South African traffic support

Fixed several issues with the trip log

Fixed issue with route recalculation

Fixed incorrect turn angle seen in some roundabouts

Fixed import of favorites

Fixed issue when importing GPX routes

Display city names on the main map

Prevent accidental stop of route while holding the Back button

Added support for enhanced audio Audible books

Fixed navigation prompt playback for some helmets/headsets when A2DP is streaming

Fixed an issue that could cause problems with MapSource or WebUpdater

From the user's perspective they have fixed a number of the stability issues and the tracklog now displays (if enabled by the user) more reliably. Route imports work better, though there is still a bug of some sort - then again I have very few routes and those are loaded one at a time.

The one that surprised me was the MSN-Direct update. I quickly went to stick the unit in my car (because I have no MSN direct receiver for my bike) and was presented with a weather radar map!! OK, it was 4 hours out of date and comprised 4 panes, supposedly 10 minutes apart. As well, it provides flight arrival details (late, on time and such) which my Nuvi 780 does not. Very neat.

I wonder, mind you why they can’t port these enhancements to the older MSN Direct capable units? But this isn’t about that.

The music and fuel icons still sit on top of each other. The screen detail still doesn’t cut it and the information bar is still messed up. in the sense that it only shows what street you are driving on when you aren’t actively navigating.

Yes, they do show *ALMOST* all street names on the map itself if you zoom in close enough. But that just doesn't hack it.

Bluetooth is still VERY messed up. The microphone audio is still very messed up. The unit still switches off when syncing between certain phones, though we've made some headway and I believe we know why . . . the question is whether Garmin will fix the problem.

So it is getting better, but there remains a pretty long list of issues and it seems that some of the basic ones (street display resolution being the biggest and most important one) and Bluetooth have yet to be addressed at all. That is strange, because the street detail issue is resolved by a very simple code change - the device is inherently able to display the denser data.

The screen still pauses while drawing and there's no way to turn autozoom off, so you can still get very messed up when travelling through a complex (or even not so complex) interchange under navigator guidance.

I'd still avoid the device, but I am beginning to see the very tiny beginnings of a bit of 'less black' if I stare real hard down the tunnel.

The ball remains in Garmin's court.

 

[MEM]

Thank you for the updates, Bramfrank. I haven't used my 660 since CFR. I suppose I'll have to figure it all out again soon and load the updates - such as they are. I really only trusted it when I knew where I was going :blink: (eg, getting from Manotick through Montreal; it kept directing me onto the craziest off-ramps to God knows where )