Oil Filter Purolator 14612

[RaYzerman19]

Pure One's filter down to 20 microns, but they don't recommend them for bikes due to potential of lesser flow (I still use them).
While I also believe more filter media is usually better, if you do your oil changes at recommended intervals, you shouldn't have any problems with a smaller filter.

Just thinking out loud here. Wouldn't the larger filter though allow for more flow than a smaller filter?

Only if the filter media is partially plugged, or even so, the bypass valve will kick in anyway...... BTW, seems to me someone cut apart a Pure One long and short, and the filter media while different size, was in fact the same square area (more pleats in the small one). One would have to cut others apart to compare within brands..... I'll see if I can find more info (maybe on Calsci.com? but their info is a little dated)

 

[rPGoatBoy]

Here's a data point. I took two 90401-20007-00 unions I had laying around to a local aerospace machine shop in Placentia. I'm having them reduce the width of the 27mm x ~0.200" hex by removing 0.075" off the face of the hex on the short side of the union (oil filter side).

"Turn off 75 thou off of this face right here"

"$40"

"See you tomorrow, thanks"

I did zero shopping around.

I like my cheap Purolators and diesel oil, tyvm.

Thanks to Norm Kern for the how to and measurement posts on the FJR Facebook page awhile back.

 

[JamesK]

Here's a data point. I took two 90401-20007-00 unions I had laying around to a local aerospace machine shop in Placentia. I'm having them reduce the width of the 27mm x ~0.200" hex by removing 0.075" off the face of the hex on the short side of the union (oil filter side).
"Turn off 75 thou off of this face right here"

"$40"

"See you tomorrow, thanks"

I did zero shopping around.

I like my cheap Purolators and diesel oil, tyvm.

Thanks to Norm Kern for the how to and measurement posts on the FJR Facebook page awhile back.

rPGoatBoy pls share your findings once you've installed and run an outie filter with the modified Union Bolt. I am curious to know why you think reducing the width by around only 0.19 millimeters will be sufficient? Given that the torque setting for the Union Bolt is only 50 ft-lbs wouldn't it be safer/better to shave off say 0.5 mm, that would still leave around 4.5mm of thickness on the Hex Nut?

 

[HotRodZilla]

Um, James, I'm thinking he's not gonna do it. I know I wouldn't pay $40 to have one turned.

 

[JamesK]

Um, James, I'm thinking he's not gonna do it. I know I wouldn't pay $40 to have one turned.

AJ, I'm presently speaking with a local friend here who's got a lathe to see if he'll be willing to shave off 0.5mm off this bolt for me for a few beers

 

[HotRodZilla]

Yeah, that's way better than $40. Lol...I'd try it for that. Haha...

 

[08FJR4ME]

Um, James, I'm thinking he's not gonna do it. I know I wouldn't pay $40 to have one turned.

AJ, I'm presently speaking with a local friend here who's got a lathe to see if he'll be willing to shave off 0.5mm off this bolt for me for a few beers

I would go at least 1mm james. I plan on cutting up my oil filter in the bandsaw tonight just for S&G's. I will post pic's time permitting.

Wal-Mart (DGFram) I never had it leak and it is screw on fairly tight. I can feel it bottom out if I turn real hard.

Dave

 

[JamesK]

Um, James, I'm thinking he's not gonna do it. I know I wouldn't pay $40 to have one turned.

AJ, I'm presently speaking with a local friend here who's got a lathe to see if he'll be willing to shave off 0.5mm off this bolt for me for a few beers

I would go at least 1mm james. I plan on cutting up my oil filter in the bandsaw tonight just for S&G's. I will post pic's time permitting.

Wal-Mart (DGFram) I never had it leak and it is screw on fairly tight. I can feel it bottom out if I turn real hard.

Dave

Thanks for the suggestion Dave, I guess shaving off 1mm should not weaken the bolt enough to worry about but will ensure that any suitable filter will work without leaking.

 

[Fred W]

gixxerjasen said:

Just thinking out loud here. Wouldn't the larger filter though allow for more flow than a smaller filter?

and RaYzerman19 replied:Only if the filter media is partially plugged, or even so, the bypass valve will kick in anyway......

Intuitively, I would think that, assuming it was made from the exact same media, having a filter with greater surface area would reduce the back pressure , and increase the flow, proportionally, regardless of how clogged up it was. Obviously it would also take more crud to clog it up too.

Oil filters have some pretty soft gaskets. I'm not sure that even shaving 1mm off the union pipe would be enough t accomodate the outies reliably. The difference between the hard stop on an innie vs an outie is more like ~10mm, not that we come anywhere near hitting it on an innie, we know that we do on the outies. I'd shave a couple mm. to be safe You'd only be shaving the hex part of the union, and the thing is not in there very tight (has red loctite on it as I recall)

 

[rPGoatBoy]

Got them back yesterday, here's what the finished product looks like. They even chamfered the points of the hex to make it look like the untouched side. You can see where the material was removed on the union on the left, the darker shaded area just above the hex is where steel used to be. The hex is now 1/8" (0.125") wide.

Why 1/8" on a metric fitting on a metric bike? Because 'murica.

rPGoatBoy pls share your findings once you've installed and run an outie filter with the modified Union Bolt. I am curious to know why you think reducing the width by around only 0.19 millimeters will be sufficient? Given that the torque setting for the Union Bolt is only 50 ft-lbs wouldn't it be safer/better to shave off say 0.5 mm, that would still leave around 4.5mm of thickness on the Hex Nut?

I didn't. The width was reduced 0.065-0.075" (1.651 - 1.905mm)

The measurements came from this guy's work: https://www.facebook.com/norm.kern.1/media_set?set=a.10205727381961393.1073741843.1160917588&type=3

It'll be awhile before I install one of these in my Feejer, I just did an oil and filter change about a month ago.

Um, James, I'm thinking he's not gonna do it. I know I wouldn't pay $40 to have one turned.

Well, I had two on hand, so I had two done (future East coast FJR). Not saying the labor breaks down to $20 each, I just wanted to throw out a data point. Also, this was a decent machine shop in Orange County CA, where the cost of living/doing business is exorbitant. I'm sure Joe Bob's turney turn shop in Sisterscrew Arkansas can do it for less, but these guys have to eat, too. Next time I need some small machining job done, I'll probably shop around.

What chaps my ass more is the fact that I used to run a small modeling/machine shop complete with a Bridgeport, a couple of lathes, and other metal working equipment, until the company I work for in it's infinite wisdom decided we no longer needed those dangerous things and we should focus more on shipping widgets more quickly. I could've banged this out in 15 minutes of my spare time two years ago.

Oil filters have some pretty soft gaskets. I'm not sure that even shaving 1mm off the union pipe would be enough t accomodate the outies reliably. The difference between the hard stop on an innie vs an outie is more like ~10mm, not that we come anywhere near hitting it on an innie, we know that we do on the outies. I'd shave a couple mm. to be safe You'd only be shaving the hex part of the union, and the thing is not in there very tight (has red loctite on it as I recall)

The two Royal Star engines ('96 and '06) I pulled these unions out of had zero loctite on the motor end of the threads. I'll see what my FJR has on it, but my assumption is there's none.

 

[RossKean]

I assume that the filter screws onto the longer (lower) threaded side? I would hate to see you run out of threads. I assume that the threaded hole in the engine is deep enough to accommodate the extra length and is threaded deeply enough?

 

[Fred W]

Hmmm... I guess it could be either end and still work

If its the top, I'd probably thread that onto an innie filter to be sure there are plenty of the threads still engaged when it's on there. I'm guessing there will be plenty

Also, the red loctite may have been specified by the guy that makes the Vstrom Unions.

 

[rPGoatBoy]

I assume that the filter screws onto the longer (lower) threaded side? I would hate to see you run out of threads. I assume that the threaded hole in the engine is deep enough to accommodate the extra length and is threaded deeply enough?

Nope, the filter screws on the shorter side. The engine casing has a deep internal thread.

Hmmm... I guess it could be either end and still work

If its the top, I'd probably thread that onto an innie filter to be sure there are plenty of the threads still engaged when it's on there. I'm guessing there will be plenty.

Probably would work with either end, they're both the same 20mm x 1.5 pitch thread. I'd thread the longer end into the engine though for the surface area of thread distortion under torque; less likely to back out. The squish of the oil filter o-ring acts like a lockwasher to load the threads on the short end.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Adding a data point you may find useful, prompted by a call from a friend who has an outie white Purolator L14610..... I have a small stash of filters purchased prior to this debaucle, and measured the depth from where the threaded engine adapter might seat to the gasket sealing surface. Measures 0.245" or 6.2 mm on the good filters (Pure One, Supertech, OEM Suzuki). I have a K&N that measures 0.300 and has an O-ring seal.

If somebody still has an outie filter, it would be interesting to know the difference in depth...... meanwhile, seems if you got one that is 6mm, you'll be good.

 

[Harald]

Interesting measurements RaYzerman19. I have one of the new Bosch 3323 filters that I have not tried on the FJR, but it's an outie and supposedly will leak on the FJR. I measured from the gasket surface to where the threads just start and got 0.225". From what I'm getting from your measurements, a filter with a 0.245" dimension doesn't leak, so there's only 20 thousands between leak and no leak. :crazy:

 

[RaYzerman19]

Just to clarify Harald, not sure what you mean by where the threads just start.... I measured on the plate surface beside the threaded hole where I imagined the hex part of the engine adapter might touch down on the plate, thus not allow the filter to screw on any further. I'm just thinking your measurement using the same method might be a tad less than 0.225? Even so, I spoze 20 thou could make a difference....

 

[Harald]

Just to clarify Harald, not sure what you mean by where the threads just start.... I measured on the plate surface beside the threaded hole where I imagined the hex part of the engine adapter might touch down on the plate, thus not allow the filter to screw on any further. I'm just thinking your measurement using the same method might be a tad less than 0.225? Even so, I spoze 20 thou could make a difference....

Now I see. My measurement would be more than a 0.020 difference if I measured to the same spot as you did. I wish I would have taken measurements the last time I had a filter off the bike to get a better idea of how much clearance is required in the filter cavity. I ride over 1000 miles per month, so it won't be long before I get the chance to measure that end of the equation.

 

[RossKean]

I usually get the Mobil M1-110 filters. So far, I haven't found an "outie" with these. They are on sale locally this week so I will pick up a few if they are right.

 

[rbentnail]

I usually get the Mobil M1-110 filters. So far, I haven't found an "outie" with these. They are on sale locally this week so I will pick up a few if they are right.

Be sure to check them before buying. I've not found any outie M1-110 or M1-108 but I have found 2 M1-102 (wife's car) that were outies.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/161314-bosch-3323-oil-filter/?p=1221569

 

[NormKern]

MODIFIED UNION BOLTS AVAILABLE.

Finally got a furnace installed in my garage, updated my tooling and worked out the details so I can make a batch of modified union bolts for those who want them.

Cost will be $30, including 1st class USPS in USA. Price includes a new union bolt, so you don't need to send me your old one.

Please order before April 1 (riding season starts and I'll be riding!)

How to order: PM me with your email address and say you want info on the FJR Union Bolt Modification.

You will receive a reply with an order form and instructions.

I have a few of these bolts in stock, that I can ship right away, but am at the mercy of Yamaha parts suppliers if we get into a back-order situation. (This is not a frequently needed replacement part!)

Here are some pics comparing modified and unmodified parts...

Stock union bolt screwed into a new-style "outie" filter.

The problem: Hex part of union bolt is too thick and prevents sealing compression of the rubber sealing ring.

Union bolt before (Left) and after (Right) modification.

Modified union bolt screwed into new-style "outie" filter.

Modified union bolt provides additional clearance needed to compress rubber sealing ring.

Norm Kern