Yamaha Super Tenere 1200

[Spud]

I've done a ton of off-road riding. You have to be able to lock up the brakes off-road...rear-wheel skidding...will decelerate better ... fully locked up rear ...

...I am keenly aware that there are often times that real is WAY different than theory.

I think Yamaha lives or dies on theory (and technology):

From the Euro test: The unified brake system with ABS is really exceptional. A computer program constantly monitors bike speed, deceleration and slip rates, in addition to wheel speeds to determine the point at which one or both wheels may be about to lose traction. The system also acts as a distributor of braking force between the front and rear brakes when the front brake lever is used (using the rear brake first defeats the brake linkage and allows the rider to control both front and rear manually). Overall, a very complex system that really works well.

Skidding v/s "a very complex system that really works well"...?

OMG!!!

Yes, SKIDDING vs. NOT SKIDDING! You're creeping down a steep hill, YOUR BRAIN knows when the wheel is locked or not by the SOUND and FEEL and pressure used with your right foot. You skid some, you roll some, you skid some more. NO ABS can do what your brain does in this circumstance! Come here and I'll show you down a local hill we call "the bitch" that's ground up pumice up to your ankles and steep as shit, and you'll have your revelation.

 

[beemerdons]

SILLY FUCKER RESPONDING HERE! The only thing that bugs me is the stock inability to disarm and disable the ABS, I related to Smitty on the phone the close call I had down in Mexico with Brian last April, where I almost took a 1K foot plunge because my pulsing BMW ABS was not stopping me in time before a very sharp curve. EXTREMELY FECKING DANGEROUS!
But, HIGHLANDER consistently has the right information on motorcycles and he has a reference resource on how you can wire in a dash switch to disarm/disable the ABS for dirt work!

If you really needed to disable the ABS for a dangerous downgrade...couldn't you just pull the ABS fuse out of the fusebox?

MCRIDER007: smitty141 will get his Tenere before I get mine, he is two spaces ahead of me at D & H. Smitty and I have already been burning up the phones and PM's over our new bikes. There is not a doubt in my military mind, that Smitty will have engineered an ABS solution to his Tenere before I get mine. I will ride to Missouri and see Smitty coming home to Arizona from Alabama. I have never been able to buy Smitty a beer, he drinks Pepsi; but I will buy him his weight in Pepsi if he solves this problem for me. What I hope can happen will be a result exactly like my 1996 BMW R1100GS, I just reach up to the dash and flip a switch for ABS ON or OFF!

 

[canyonman]

We will be counting on you to come up with a Mexico ride that IS suitable for these "over weight" "not really a dual sport" bikes Don.

This will be the Looongest winter ever. :hyper:

 

[dcarver]

OK ABS Boyz.. you asked for it now...

I've ridden dirt since 7 and still race MX/SX at 53.

Assuming CG is asking genuine questions and not just giving PapaChuey a heart attack..

An ABS bike in the dirt sucks. The friction coefficient of most dirt surfaces is much less than even the worst street condition. The ABS CPU senses wheel lock up, which is occurring much much earlier, and 'releases' the brakes. You almost freewheel - as if no brakes.

It is truly scary and a horrible idea to leave ABS activated on *most* dirt surfaces. I say almost, because some dirt, some times, does have good traction, e.g. friction coefficients. Hard packed clay for example. Some granite surfaces found in Utah are like riding on concrete. For those conditions, ABS is OK. All other times, which is like 99.5%, leave the ABS at home.

Oh, yeah, and any dirt rider worth his salt uses the rear brake to steer with, especially on nasty downhills. Some, like me, actually use the front brake to initiate faster cornering - although this is a bit dicey.

BeemerD, something else to think about, based upon my recent (last weekend) install of a plug n play Eastern Beaver ABS harness and switch... and that is at least on the DL 650, you can disable the ABS anytime - but to re-enable it the CPU must be recycled - e.g. the ignition has to be cut, the anti-ABS switch set to ABS mode, then turn ignition switch back on. Not a huge deal, but I do alot of short dirt/pavement rides, it would be nicer to not have to cycle the ignition switch.

 

[Fairlaner]

Mr carver when i get mine I will ride up to the Honderossa for some lessons.......

R

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

OK ABS Boyz.. you asked for it now...

I can't tell the ABS lovers from the ABS haters, anymore...

Assuming CG is asking genuine questions

I think a motorcycle's braking system deserves some serious discussion (and needn't deteriorate into name calling).

An ABS bike in the dirt sucks. The friction coefficient of most dirt surfaces is much less than even the worst street condition. The ABS CPU senses wheel lock up, which is occurring much much earlier, and 'releases' the brakes. You almost freewheel - as if no brakes.

I don't think Yamaha relied on such a simple system for the new TenRay?: (see following...)

The unified brake system with ABS is really exceptional. A computer program constantly monitors bike speed, deceleration and slip rates, in addition to wheel speeds to determine the point at which one or both wheels may be about to lose traction. The system also acts as a distributor of braking force between the front and rear brakes when the front brake lever is used.

...install ... on the DL 650... the anti-ABS switch ...

Just because BMW doesn't seem to posess the requisite ABS technology (and, apparently, Suzuki...?) should have little bearing on Yamaha's abilities...

 

[HaulinAshe]

I don't know why I poked in here. But it sure was an entertaining last few posts!

Using the rear brake to lock the rear wheel and square a corner is common technique.

DCarver is 110% correct. ABS has virtually NO use off-pavement. The only way it could function effectively off-pavement is IF it had some way to assess how fast the bike was traveling forward versus how fast the front wheel was rotating. Comparing the wheel speeds from front to rear is totally useless for any reasonably skilled dirt rider.

If the ABS computer had someway of knowing when I'm completely locking the front wheel, then front-wheel-only ABS could be useful. Until we tie ABS to extremely accurate motion sensors or GPS systems, keep dreaming and keep the damn ABS off dirt.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

The only way it could function effectively off-pavement is IF it had some way to assess how fast the bike was traveling forward versus how fast the front wheel was rotating.

Did you not read the paragraph quoted in the middle of the previous post?

Comparing the wheel speeds from front to rear is totally useless ...

(The way I read it...) The new TenRay's system is way more sophisticated than that.

If the ABS computer had someway of knowing when I'm completely locking the front wheel, then front-wheel-only ABS could be useful. Until we tie ABS to extremely accurate motion sensors...

The TenRay: "monitors speed, deceleration, and slip rates... as well as wheel speeds... and distributes braking forces (as in more or less)."

I guess we'll see -- but I'm not so hasty to decry its usefullness.

 

[exskibum]

WOW! HaulinAshe is right -- this has been an amusing stretch of posts. I'm gonna go with Carver, Ashe, Spud and Chuy in the conditions they describe and have expertise in. Takin' a big pig of an adventure bike down a mostly compacted gravel forest service road, I expect the Tenere's ABS just might be state of the art enough to remain useful, and it's certainly nice on the paved road parts of a tour. But if I get off into the powdered sugar dirt, or steep downhills, or hell -- just loose single track, I'm gonna be disabling it. Even IF it wouldn't sometimes get me in deep shit in the certain dirt conditions, I haven't seen anyone post a significant advantage to it in those low friction cases vis not having it.

Where is that horse flogging .gif, anyway?

 

[dcarver]

I just wonder how good you 500 pound so called dirt biking wannabees will be able to resist the allure of the double track that winds down to the passable single track that is just getting tricky but the map shows a bitchen lake with nekkid 23 year old drop dead gorgeous females and it's only another 3 miles? That's when the weight will suck.

I've had the Weestrom in some pretty rough places - and wasn't having any fun. Sure, I could *make* it, but it was *work*. My bud on the KTM 990, who can ride that bike all day long in the street, was having great fun blasting corners, lifting the front, and with actually having decent ground clearance, wasn't afraid of the ruts and logs and such.

The Super looks great - but oh, the call of the open trail..

I really look forward to the 'I should have known better rider reports in a couple of months!' :lol:

 

[Fred W]

The TenRay: "monitors speed, deceleration, and slip rates... as well as wheel speeds... and distributes braking forces (as in more or less)."I guess we'll see -- but I'm not so hasty to decry its usefullness.

Yeah, so does the FJR and BMW and Suzuki systems. That's pretty much standard practice in all ABS systems these days. But maybe not in the way you are envisioning it.

The speed it senses either from the speedo input, which would come from a sensor on the countershaft (ie after the tranny) and therefore be effected by the rear wheel state, or from one or both of the wheel tone rings.

Deceleration is off the tone rings. It looks at the "rate of change" for the tone ring pulses and compares this to a look-up table of "normal". Problem is that what is normal will vary depending on the road surface. Normal for tarmac and normal for dirt are very different.

Slip rate is calculated by a couple of methods. It compares front to back wheel speed signals. If one is different then the lower rate wheel must be slipping. It also looks at the individual wheel deceleration calculations and I think this is where we run into a lot of trouble in the dirt.

As I said before, in the dirt, every time you touch a brake, that wheel will slip. At least as compared to the "on road" model.

What needs to happen for ABS to "work" in the dirt is for there to be a seperate set of algorithms used to determine slip rate and rate of decel. The connection between the tire and road are the big variable here, and that is unaccounted for in the ABS programs (so far).

 

[exskibum]

passable single track that is just getting tricky but the map shows a bitchen lake with nekkid 23 year old drop dead gorgeous females and it's only another 3 miles? That's when the weight will suck.

Callin' Bullshit! Never seen a map like that, so either you post it up, or it don't exist.

For the crap you're talking about, I ain't taking no FJR, XX or Super Tenere down that kind of trail. That's for a much lighter bike -- at most a KLR 650, though I might unload that and get a used DRZ 400 for the local stuff where the map shows bare titties and such.

 

[Fred W]

nekid 23 y/o's prefer gents on KTMs. So open your wallet wide. Not for the bike so much. More for the maintenance bills...

 

[HIGHLANDER]

nekid 23 y/o's prefer gents on KTMs. So open your wallet wide. Not for the bike so much. More for the maintenance bills...

KTM's and 23 years have a lot in common.....high maintenance !

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Skidding v/s "a very complex system that really works well"...?

OMG!!!

Yes, SKIDDING vs. NOT SKIDDING!

Not quite -- skidding v/s a very complex, latest technology, computerized system that, reportedly, "really works well".

...YOUR BRAIN knows when the wheel is locked or not ...NO ABS can do what your brain does ...!

That's almost, verbatum, the argument anti-ABSers used, years ago, against street ABS -- you don't hear it much, anymore.

Come here and I'll show you down a local hill we call "the bitch" that's ground up pumice up to your ankles and steep as shit, and you'll have your revelation.

OMG!!!

You're not suggesting taking the, almost 600 lb., Super TenRay down "the bitch", are you?

 

[beemerdons]

We will be counting on you to come up with a Mexico ride that IS suitable for these "over weight" "not really a dual sport" bikes Don. This will be the Looongest winter ever. :hyper:

I have got you covered canyonman, the Baja Ride is still a go for March. Just need to coordinate with Khunajawdge and dcarver to make sure they are off from Cal-Poly San Luis Obispo at that time, Cal-Poly is my old Alma Mater. My first wife Judy and I used to screw where Don Carver's office now sits, it used to be the indoor swimming pool area of The Old Gym at Poly! D, sorry about that sticky stuff!

Other than that, I will ride mi motocicleta to Mexico at the drop of a Sombrero. ese! Keep 480-440-4666 and [email protected] handy, if you have a spare week we will ride South anywhere.

For my 63rd Birthday on October 28, 2011 I am riding with HotRodZilla, Patch308 and "El Gobernador" Martin Osete to Guatemala. If you have three weeks to spare, you can ride to Chiapas with us!

 

[exskibum]

Would someone puhleese either post up that horse flogging .gif or a pic of those gorgeous nekkid 23 y.o. tittes?!?

 

[exskibum]

Here's what I'm told by the sales manager at Roseville Yamaha:

They'll be taking orders at MSRP, which is $13,900. Under $800 for YES. $1,600 for the Yamaha bags, which he believes are being improved to be more robust than what has led to the criticisms from other parts of the world. Top box will be available, but not part of that $1,600 price, and for a price as yet unknown.

Just posting up the answers I got. I would like to buy from the dealer I trust with my FJR that is local, but flying to Alabama and riding home for a savings of $2000 is not out of the question if that Alabama bike also has a Calif CARB emissions sticker. Or the dealer in Ely, NV. So is there a Cali model and a 49 states model, or just one 50 states model?

For $1,600 for Yamaha bags, I think I'm leaning heavily toward aftermarket bags that already have a reputation for toughness and durability on other bikes.

Not putting my deposit down anywhere before getting back from WCR, so Super Tenere dudes attending WCR: we need to discuss this and whip up the fervor on Vancouver Island next week.

 

[No One]

Here's what I'm told by the sales manager at Roseville Yamaha:
They'll be taking orders at MSRP, which is $13,900. Under $800 for YES. $1,600 for the Yamaha bags, which he believes are being improved to be more robust than what has led to the criticisms from other parts of the world. Top box will be available, but not part of that $1,600 price, and for a price as yet unknown.

Just posting up the answers I got. I would like to buy from the dealer I trust with my FJR that is local, but flying to Alabama and riding home for a savings of $2000 is not out of the question if that Alabama bike also has a Calif CARB emissions sticker. Or the dealer in Ely, NV. So is there a Cali model and a 49 states model, or just one 50 states model?

For $1,600 for Yamaha bags, I think I'm leaning heavily toward aftermarket bags that already have a reputation for toughness and durability on other bikes.

Not putting my deposit down anywhere before getting back from WCR, so Super Tenere dudes attending WCR: we need to discuss this and whip up the fervor on Vancouver Island next week.

I agree... My guy is doing $12,500 but its in my back yard and I trust the dude... Then I dont have to go anywhere else to do the tax and other stuff, I can do it right there in the office. Also with the boxes, if Yamaha does not offer some great aluminum boxes im going after market 100%.. There are too many great business's that have been building great pannier systems for a long time. Throw down your $500 bones and join the club ! :yahoo:

 

[exskibum]

Throw down your $500 bones and join the club ! :yahoo:

When I get back from WCR, I expect I'll be doing that, but I'd rather not pay 13,900 when others are getting them for $2000 less. That's why I'm wondering if there is a 49 states version and a Cali version, or if Yamaha is making them ALL Cali compliant.